National consultations on eliminating prejudice

Consultations Homepage | Meeting Notes: 9 August 2003

Wollongong community consultation hosted by Illawarra Ethnic Communities Council, Cringila, 9 August 2003

The consultation was organised by the Illawarra Ethnic Communities Council and chaired by the ECC Executive Officer, Kathy Tzanis. The meeting was facilitated by Meredith Wilkie and Omeima Sukkarieh (notes) from HREOC with Omeima also interpreting parts of the discussion. It was attended by 14 invited participants.

1. What are your experiences of discrimination and vilification?

In public places

Two of the women present referred to the experience of receiving stares and aggressive looks from strangers in public places.

“I have been here for two years and I can’t say much because to be honest with you I haven’t experienced a lot of discrimination since I’ve been here. I have heard of other people’s experiences of the times they go into the city for example. They go shopping, walking in the street, and the reality is that when people see a woman wearing the hijab they will stare at her and look at her in an ‘upside down’ strange way.”

“You hear about such stories all the time. About three days ago, I was sitting at the table in the shopping centre and people started staring at me and saying rude things. But the thing is that you don’t want to exaggerate the problem and an even bigger one by saying something. We are experiencing things we shouldn’t be. But what can we do about it. We are the type of people who against making any problems. I was at Macdonald’s recently and people just stare at you. It’s not so much that they swear at you, or humiliate you. It could be as little as a look.”

Another was approached and abused twice in public in the immediate aftermath of 11 September 2001.

“We experienced a lot, from the young people to the older people. I was one of the first to experience something after September 11, when I was shopping. A woman started swearing at me and asking me about my ‘isharb’ [i.e. scarf]. Then an Australian woman showed up and defended me and told me ‘don’t listen to her, she’s crazy’. I felt like crying. I couldn’t swear at her; I couldn’t do anything. From that time I experienced so much. The day after I was walking in the street and this man started doing the same thing. He stopped and asked me ‘Do you come to Wollongong everyday?’ I said ‘Why? What’s the problem?’ He said, ‘No, I’m just wondering’. And I said ‘Yes, everyday I come to Wollongong and if you must know I am standing here at 2pm everyday’. And he said, ‘Ok, see you tomorrow’. He was mocking me.”

“I have been hearing also that there are many incidents with road rage.”

At Customs

“I have been in Australia for 37 years. I know all the laws of this country, you know and I am not new here. I recently came back from overseas on a holiday and usually no-one asks you what you have or don’t have or anything if you declare nothing. And what did I bring this time? This young man came and searched my bag and I brought with me five small packets of chewing gum. And this lady at the airport asked me what else I was carrying and I said ‘Nothing’. I told her that on my way to the airport to catch my plane I put the chewing gum in my handbag. And she wanted me to open a 40kg luggage bag because of five pieces of chewing gum that were in my handbag. I feel like we don’t even have any respect anymore. There should be no difference between the way we’re treated and others are treated.”

Is this a new phenomenon?

“We have taken up citizenship and have brought up our children and children’s children in Australia. Their [Australians’] school is our school and our life is their life. But for the last two years or so, it’s the first time you get asked for example at doctors if you are a Muslim or a Christian or whatever. This was never an issue before and I don’t think that this law and policy should be like this at all. We are living in the country [referring to Australia] fine and we don’t reject that at all. On the contrary, our children and their children are at school together. We have never taught our children to hate Australians or hate Italians, but to befriend other kids and be good to each other. My kids went through high school and never once did they come home and say that an Australian kid or some other kid made a complaint about us or picked on us. But now it’s a new thing for them to say that. For the first time now it’s ‘Oh, that girl is wearing the hijab; be careful’, or being called wogs…This is happening a lot and it happens in front of our own eyes.”

What are the causes of prejudice against Arabs and Muslims?

“We don’t feel that much has been done to educate the ignorant people who discriminate against a certain community because of what’s happening overseas. Doesn’t matter, Muslim or Christian, it doesn’t really matter. A Muslim because you are more obvious. But if you don’t wear a scarf then there’s no difference in the way we look. We are subjected to the same kind of behaviour. During the Gulf War, Lebanon was with the allies, with the invaders. But we were subjected to the same kind of discrimination that we’re experiencing today. And we don’t see any real genuine effort from the government to make any changes.

“You see I think we’re being discriminated against from the very very top, from Mr John Howard. He talks about and identifies Muslim people as being aggressive people and terrorists, who we are not, but we should not be denied the right to defend ourselves. If someone is going to slap me, I’m going to slap him back and that should be expected. We are always on the defensive; whatever happens, it’s always the religion that is targeted. When the discrimination is coming from the top, then the education should come from the same source.

“Our Prime Minister yesterday agreed to capital punishment for the Bali Bomber, even though our government is against capital punishment. But he made an exception because that murderer, and that’s what he is, is a Muslim, basically. So there are our double standards. When 200 people died in Qana [the UN managed Palestine refugee camp in South Lebanon where a massacre occurred in 1998], we did not hear him [referring to John Howard] bark and say things about this murderous and most aggressive horrible act. … We’ve got Australian citizens locked in cages in Camp X-Ray. They’ve got no right to a solicitor; they’ve got no right to speak to their parents or family; and yet our government, in a very cowardly fashion cannot speak up and say, ‘They have some rights’. … But we come to a stage of despair. We thought to ourselves, ‘why waste your time?’ Honestly, we used to watch the news all the time but we don’t anymore because it’s a waste of time. You hear the same bloody thing. Every single day we hear ‘we are the goodies and they are the baddies. We kill and we’re proud we kill’.”

The way in which Australian media and politicians label an entire community for the actions of a few was identified by one participant as a significant cause of prejudice.

“If something happens to our brothers or sisters, or a Muslim or Christian do a bad thing, it’s not right to say that all Muslims are not worthwhile, or all Christians are not worthwhile. No! This is wrong! Those that present on the news or write in the papers, they are the ones that are fanatics and they are the ones that are racist and they are the ones that create divisions more than anyone else… Our religions don’t permit us to do things they accuse us of and we cannot go outside our religion. We don’t accept that these things happen and innocent people die and that there are problems for this country. Ever! Wherever it is, we won’t say that our people are innocent of any guilt but it is not different to any other community.”

“This discrimination stems first and foremost from the government and it is now everywhere. Every time that you turn on your television, it’s anti-Arab or anti-Muslim and there is a negative image of Arabs and Muslims. Peace came from the Arab world.”

Australia’s involvement in the war on Iraq was felt to be another precipitating factor.

“If there is to be a war in Africa, John Howard is then going to send an army over. If there is to be a war in Lebanon then John Howard is going to send an Army there. He’s going to follow George Bush and Tony Blair. This is why we have such fanaticism and problems in this country. If a man wants to look at his country, he must look at the interests of his country. This is what is allowing people to be out of control and chaotic. He should be looking at domestic issues. Look after the children and get them in employment; educate them; explain to them what life’s really about.”

Do people report incidents or make formal complaints?

Generally people are unwilling to report incidents.

“Attendance today is a clear example of why people do not take part in demonstrating their rejection of the current circumstances. But people are afraid. We experienced this throughout the past months during the Iraqi war. People amongst themselves will say a lot of things about human rights abuses, about discrimination against a certain nation and against a certain people. Yet when they are called upon to express their views in a peaceful manner, people were very reluctant to take part, because they were afraid they will be photographed, video taped and then reported to some sort of secret agency or they will be arrested. And their fears were genuine I can assure you. Despite the efforts of various people within our community, and despite their assurances that this consultation will be of value to air their concerns and to talk to people who can affect some change, as you can see there are a handful of people who have attended. [They attended] because of personal phone calls to these individuals and because of personal relations between individuals. Now this is a very very clear example that they are afraid.

“There is not much you [HREOC] can do, that if someone gives me a dirty look or makes me feel intimidated or uncomfortable; but if I come to you, I don’t think that you’re going to say ‘Look, we will be fixing that situation up and it is never going to happen again’. Nobody can give us this reassurance. But on the other hand, if I say something [to the perpetrator] like ‘You have no right to talk to me like this; you should never talk to me like this’, then we become [i.e. we are labelled] the aggressor. If you have been cornered or harassed, if you react in any way, if you raise your voice or you get angry, change colour or whatever, then you’re the aggressor. This is I’m afraid the reality.”

However, one participant related a very positive experience of police assistance for one family being racially abused by neighbours.

“I was interpreting for a family who had neighbours who had just moved into the area and there were very abusive towards this family, their children, and they went to the police to complain and the police took their statement. They were advised by the police to try and resolve the issue in a peaceful manner. Knowing the family, they felt that if they took legal action then they will create more problems and make the neighbour very angry. They felt very vulnerable and felt scared. The police offered to go and talk quite firmly with the neighbours. So the Lebanese family accepted their advice and the police went and had a chat to the neighbour and ever since then there have been no incidents. Things have been quiet between them.”

What have been the impacts of and reactions to discrimination and vilification?

“I had a friend who took off the hijab because of fear.”

“I was questioned once about whether or not I consider myself to be Australian. I said yes and the lady asked me ‘Then why do you wear that scarf?’ I said ‘Because I am also Muslim and when you see me this is what you see. I am Australian but I am also Muslim and Arabic speaking and this is who I am. I am still me; I can’t put one of them aside because if I do then it’s not me anymore.’”

Apparently Arabic radio and press advised community members against retaliation and making complaints in the wake of 11 September.

“When the events started happening they put on television and on the radio, Arabic radio, that if you experience anything against you like any discrimination then nobody say anything to [the perpetrators] because they are already anxious and their blood is already boiling. They [community media] told us that if we experience any attacks ‘don’t respond to anyone’. On radio and on television the announcers advised us not to say anything when these things happen because Australians are now frustrated and upset from these events.”

“A lot of incidents happen to the women and I think the media has a big role to play, especially the local media, the local papers. You switch any TV station and it is the same talk and you get very very upset but you don’t know what to do. For me a person like many other women, I’d rather stay inside the house and if you want to go shopping you’ll be escorted by your son, your husband, to go shopping. I used to go in the car and lock my window and my door.”

One participant was critical of community spokespeople whose repeated message is that Muslims are peace loving and who give the impression that the community is timid and unable or unwilling to resist attacks on its reputation, property or individual members.

“I have very right to defend myself. If somebody is calling me a name, I have every right to defend myself and clear my name. I should not be accused of what I’m not guilty of, and I should not be regretful or expressing my regrets and sorrows for something I’m not responsible for. I would not be a peace loving person when I am attacked. I respect the rules, but if I’m constantly being harassed and attacked I am not going to be a peace lover. And unfortunately any reaction is not going to be a positive or a good reaction, because we are human.

“We live within the laws of Islam and Australia. If I have to follow my religious beliefs then I believe an eye for an eye. This is what my religion tells me. Despite all the politics and the diplomatic presentation, I believe in an eye for an eye. … You must protect your home; your family; your possessions; protect your faith. But we don’t do this because we live within the legal values of the Australian law; so we are much more forgiving. And if somebody is aggressive towards me I’m likely to walk away or go to the police; I don’t take the law into my own hands. But by doing so I am encouraging this perpetrator because some time he will do the same to another person. Once you behave as a guilty party then the person believes that he has the right to run over your back and try to annoy you.”

“I had Australian neighbours who died about a month ago and I cried over them. Why, because they were good with us. They were Australians. The man was like my father and the woman like my mother. They were neighbours. I’m not going to say they were Christian or Jewish and therefore I’m not going to talk to them. No! If a person is going to be good to me then I will open my arms, but if they are not going to be good to me then I will distance myself and leave them be.”

Participants expressed their concern, particularly, about the damage to children and youth.

“[Young people] have different cultural norms they have to live by and then when they go to school and their teachers are discriminating against them…young people are struggling with all this and I’ve had a few young people say to me, ‘I don’t need your help, I’ll help myself.’ And sometime their solutions aren’t always the right ones. So how do you teach them the skills to deal with all these things happening to them? The reality is that they’re struggling. A lot of young people are struggling and parents are saying ‘We have our culture, but how can we pass it on to our children without them having to go through such a huge struggle?’ We are creating a very angry generation who will eventually end up with psychological repercussions. I don’t believe that anyone can endure this kind of pressure and come out feeling ok.”

Young people, in particular, may reject their heritage in response to negative coverage of their ethnic or religious community.

“A lot of people, our people, move away from their ethnicity. They don’t want to be identified as being Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqi’s, Palestinians or whatever. They’re just Australians. Because it is shoved down their throats every single news broadcast. These terrorists shot somebody and somebody’s injured, then children were killed, but ‘They’re only Arabs, or they’re only Muslims, or Lebanese, or Iraqis or Jordanians’. like they have no value. And they [young people] think ‘Why should I belong if I was from this trashy kind of race who’s worthless? I’d rather be a Westerner who’s very valued.’ This is very sad.”

2. What is being done to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?

The Illawarra Ethnic Communities Council has run some programs for young people.

“We often have opportunities for young people of all communities to be able to discuss issues that are happening to them. We focus and push the message ‘Don’t discriminate’, even in our arts projects and the community centres. We say ‘Come and participate, don’t segregate’. And we put them all together to foster multiculturalism. Also we hold little consultations to allow them to discuss what is happening to them and sometimes bring in a local community leader to talk to them about it.”

The experience of local Muslim women with a swim program was described by a couple of participants who had been involved in organising it. A local pool was hired after hours for women and children only. The aim of the program was described as follows:

“That program was specifically designed to be a culturally appropriate program to give the women their space and learn to swim so they can participate with their children and watch over them better, so it was culturally appropriate for clothing and environment.”

“I think that was an important program because the women were already staying inside at home all the time. So that was the only place we felt we could go and be free and be comfortable because we couldn’t even do that in the shop.”

There was some early negative publicity about the program.

“At first there were complaints because people thought that the swimming pool were closing their doors to the general public for Muslim women which was not true because we were using the service after hours and we were paying for that service. We paid as a group after hours and we were like any other customers.”

Some 100 participants were enrolled initially in the swim program. At some point, however, the pool decided to employ a male security guard.

“It was very uncomfortable. You couldn’t relax and  you had to pass the security man to check everything before you went in.”

“By having this guard you’re exposing them and it defeats the purpose of what the program was supposed to do.”

3. What more could be done to fight anti-Arab and anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination?

“All of us appreciate people who are doing the researches and trying to assist our community or when we see people speaking in public, Anglo-Australians speaking on our behalf saying ‘These are lovely people, they are peace loving people, they’re good contributors to society’. That’s good and that’s what we fail to bring to the forefront. Our governor, the Governor of NSW, you know she’s of Lebanese background, but you don’t see this. If she was a druggie then you would see that she was of Lebanese background. But there are lots of people who contributed to society, to the Australian community in NSW for example, local businesses here; there are tens of them. We have lots of well educated people in high positions. They are never promoted. At least on the local stage this is something we should be promoting. We have doctors, accountants, taxi drivers and business people. This is the kind of people that we should promote by saying, ‘They’re like us; they’re not cannibals; they don’t hate us; and look how they have contributed’. This is all ignored. Yet a Middle Eastern bloke stabbed somebody or shot some people, you hear about that!”

In conclusion one participant said:

“We thank you very much for coming here and allowing us the opportunity to speak. We know that things are going to happen to us but Australia is our family and we have embraced it like everybody else. We have lived with Australia more than our own family. We have lived here more than we have lived in our countries of birth. Australia has become our ‘wattan’ [meaning homeland] and our children were born and grew up here. I teach my kids to be friends with everyone. I mean, our reputation has become black without us having done anything and this is unfortunate.”